EP4 - On Being an Artist in Appalachia

In this one we unpack the complicated joy and frustration of being artists in Appalachia. We explore growing up disconnected from the region, eventually falling in love with its beauty and culture, and now feeling fervently protective. We dive into the devaluation of Appalachian art and accents, the growing community of young, liberal creatives rising up in the South, and why pursuing art in Appalachia is not only possible but worth fighting for.

From our little corner of Appalachia to wherever you're listening, thanks for hanging with us.

However you're feeling right now, we hope you leave a little more encouraged to create. If this episode resonated with you, sharing it with someone who needs it means more than you know.

New episodes every other Thursday. You can follow the show, browse past episodes, and find more information at becauseofcoursewedid.buzzsprout.com.

Be kind to yourself, and keep making art.

- Birdie & Ben

Our art:

Birdie: thedawnbird.com
Ben: dwellertor.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello everyone, I'm Bertie.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

And I'm Ben.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

And welcome to Because of Course We Did, where we discuss life as a modern artist, the way people react to us and the things that we do, and occasionally talk about recovering from religious trauma, our own mental health journeys, and all sorts in between.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Today we're going to be getting into the weeds about being an Appalachian artist. So you're so you're from Appalachia, huh?

SPEAKER_00 0:25

I am from Appalachia. So you are as well, aren't you too?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

I believe so. I would say yes to that. Okay. Where did you grow?

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

I grew up in North Georgia.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Oh my God. Me too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

You didn't know? I knew. Oh, he knew. I confess I knew.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

You knew. Yeah. So we both grew up in North Georgia in towns just next to each other, actually. And so yes, we do say Appalachia, even though we are from Southern Appalachia. Even though I like I personally don't think that there's a wrong way to say most words. There's just like regional differences. And I know a lot of people say shit like Appalachia and Appalachia.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

A lot of different things.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Which I know I'm rolling my eyes slightly, but I just like and I know that most people seem to think that people from like upper Appalachia call it Appalachia. But I just like the way it sounds. And as an artistic person, if I like the way it sounds or looks, that's what's right for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Well, also you're from there. So that's what everyone else said growing up.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

So yeah, but that's also a very strange phenomenon because I feel like a lot of people are now saying it Appalachia. And even in North Georgia, which I think is so odd. Even like the old men in their overalls and overshirts were saying Appalachia, as far as I knew. Yeah. Like it wasn't really a question. Like people in North Carolina, I wouldn't really like to say Appalachia, and I was like, that's fine. That's just where you're from. But yeah, I mean, uh, I've always wondered if people cared about like if Georgia was part of Appalachia, because like it is, it's the start of the Appalachian mountain range.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

That's where the Appalachian Trail starts.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

But yeah, and that's where we're from. It's like it's the foothills of Appalachia. And it definitely is. And but that's what that's just what that's just what I call it. And I think it sounds the nicest. It sounds the most musical and beautiful. And I just I like it better.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Same. So I'm gonna keep saying it even if you can say whatever you want.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

I I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yeah, you s if you like saying Appalachia, do it. That's that's your perucky dooke-doo.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

And how do you feel about Appalachia?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

It's a mixed bag. I I love it. I love um I don't know. The uh obviously mountains. I love mountains. I love specifically the Appalachian Mountains, how they just kind of slowly roll. We tried to put one in the back, but uh it's raining today and it's boggy.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

So yeah, we're coming to you from the car because uh we needed to get out of the house as we both work from home, and getting out of the house on the weekend feels a necessity to mental health. So yeah, we're up actually at a mountain range in southern Appalachia. We currently live in southwestern Virginia, which is you know even deeper in the southern Appalachians, and there's a beautiful mountain range behind us, but it is a chilly, foggy day here in rural Virginia. So here we are.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Still beautiful though.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Still beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Looking looking like uh Andrew Wise painting out there, which you know you can't be mad about.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

So, how do you feel about Appalachia?

SPEAKER_00 3:24

I feel like I grew up with a very strange view, I feel like, of Appalachia. Like I've only ever basically lived in Appalachia. I was born near Atlanta, Georgia. And but I grew up most of my life in North Georgia, very North Georgia, extreme North Georgia, right on the border of Georgia, North Carolina, and Tennessee. And I never felt very connected to it growing up. It always felt like I wasn't really part of it, which is strange because my whole family is from Georgia from as far back as I have any knowledge of it. But it also was like a disconnection from the South as well, in a weird way. Like I just didn't know if I really connected with it. Like I've always had this odd kind of, eh, like I don't know, is this where I belong? Like, I don't know. But as I've gotten older, I have grown in my affection for it. And like it's the most beautiful place in the world to me. Like it nothing really compares to how beautiful it is.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

I would agree with that. And I think that a a lot to do with that is actively learning things about it.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Yeah, like identifying trees and flowers.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah. Absolutely. Like, what is that? Oh, that's a you know, rattle one-off.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

You put me on the spot here. Like wild dwarf irises.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Mm-hmm. Those are good.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Mayapples, rhododendrons. Now, as I've gotten older, I've grown to appreciate it so much more. And like I've never lived outside of really Southern Appalachia other than, you know, being born in it's still Southern Appalachia in a way, but being born in Atlanta. But I've lived now in Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia. And I've grown such an extreme appreciation for it and an understanding that I just don't think I would be happy living anywhere else. So I guess you can say I've grown to love it. Yeah. And I don't know. It's just like, I guess I've grown more to be more defensive of it. Like it is my home. Like, I don't know. I guess like in this like long search of trying to figure out where I belong, I realize that I do belong here. Like this is my home. I may not be like the people I grew up around, which I don't think I am, but I'm still part of it. And there are other people like me, such as yourself. Such as myself. In the area. And there are people who care about the things I do. And really, like, I think a lot of the things like not respecting it. Like, I feel like people didn't necessarily respect it. They were just kind of, this is mine. Like, right. But I there's such an interesting, like they're like, there's a lot of tawdry history, but there's also really good history of people making beautiful things and honoring, like, there's so much, like, I think I've grown in so much respect for like people who did like they didn't have options. So they did learn herbal medicines and made what they needed, but made it beautifully. Absolutely. And yeah, they may have had some weird ideas about things, they may have not been perfect, but none of us is perfect.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

And if you pretend like any group of people is or any region is, you're wrong. And so yeah, I guess I've grown to love it and support it, though I'm still working on the process of feeling more a part of it. But I think just like loving it and wanting to protect it, not necessarily preserve, I feel like is the wrong word. It's just like let it develop in a more beautiful and helpful way.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah. And I I agree with that. And I I feel exactly the same way. Um, but I feel like, you know, from social media and our friends and like people we've known in our past, there I feel like there's a small movement of people that love Appalachia and its roots and but are, you know, more liberal leaning, which is strange because you know, most people you see around very conservative. Very conservative. There's lots of Trump signs around.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Unfortunately. And um but I feel like there's a small movement growing of people our age that like they're getting into the arts, they're covered in tattoos, they have like a deep love for possums and raccoons and uh various Appalachian creatures.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

New Appalachia is rising somewhat. New Appalachian is rising, and I think that feeling like that something is growing good out of a lot of shit that's happening.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

And I desperately want to be a part of that movement.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yeah, working on that.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

So like I Appalachia has a lot to say because it's a pretty big place, but people have historically, you know, not given a shit about it. And I like that's unfair because it's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah, but unfortunately, some people are giving too much. Like, there's that weird combination of like it's good in ways that it's becoming more popular, but also terrible. Like, because it does it's terrible in some ways, but also great in others. And that's an unfortunate thing. Like, I kind of hate that everyone wants to live here now because, like, excuse me, why are you coming here and destroying everything? Like, literally destroying it is what my major problem is that people coming and tearing down our forests and disrespecting ways of life without even beginning to try to understand it. Like, there are so many people that I disagree with fundamentally with their life, their worldviews, but I don't think that everything that they think is wrong. And I don't think that they're necessarily evil. Some people kind of evil. But a lot of the like I think expecting anyone to be perfect, I think is a little bit You're asking a lot. You're asking a lot, and no one is, and if anyone thinks that they are, they're wrong.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

But that's kind of a different subject. Yeah, that that's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

But yeah, there there is definitely the interesting thing of liberalism growing in the South.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Um and you know, that probably has a lot to do with transplants that are um, you know, they they're bringing their ideals, but also want to integrate into the culture. And so there's there's a a a meeting, you know, somewhere in the middle. But there's people like us that like our families have lived here for generations, and uh we're we don't see eye to eye with our families or their fan uh extended family or their peers. Like we're very different and we we grew up here.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

We yeah, but like new people coming in can also be good to encourage your thought presses, like people who have similar views to you. Like, I feel like that helped me meeting some people when I was younger who there were things that maybe had some trouble with, but they were like, Yeah, this is completely reasonable. And you're like, Oh, okay. Well, no one said that before.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

No one, no one, no one validated my guys.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

What's wrong with what's wrong with gay people? Like nothing. Oh, you see, I always suspected.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Yeah. It it never made sense to me before, but there it is.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah. And bringing it back to thinking about art and art in the like liberal conservative divide in the south, which is growing, which is kind of crazy. But I think people still see like the South in Appalachia as like really conservative, and it is, but it's also not. Like we live in this little town in rural Southwest Virginia, which is a very odd place. Like we currently live there, but it is more liberal than everywhere else around. And people are moving here in order to live in a place like this and experience the living in the country, but also having people around them that have similar worldviews and everything. And it's not perfect, but it is interesting because it's growing and it affects the way I don't know. I was wondering if it like affects the way that art is perceived, because I feel like they do, even though I don't love all the art that's produced here, there is art produced here. And I do wonder if there's an effect on the fact that liberalism is growing here, even though art's always existed in the South, but it's changing and the way it's viewed is being changed. And yeah, I don't know where I'm going with that one. But I I do wonder, it's like people have always made art in Southern Appalachia, but I do wonder if like the rise of liberalism is helping people make more money off of it, because I feel like liberalism has more respect a lot of the time. Yes. For art, like art, in my opinion, growing up, it was like it's not something that you could like make a living on, and it's not something that has a lot of value, but that also may be semi-religious stuff in there too, because it's not serving the kingdom of God.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

See that there I think therein lies the problem is that like uh if you are pursuing arts in any form or fashion, it's not furthering the kingdom of God. It's you know, you you're doing something that you have this deep desire to do, and yet I guess it's you know, you're trying to do something for yourself. And you in Christianity, you're not allowed to do anything from the right you that kind of thing. And uh that's where I think it stems from. Where liberalism is often uh uh more associated with not being religious, and so there is that divide there with uh Christians versus non-Christians, I guess. So like they don't they don't prize art, especially modern ones. Obviously, in the past that's not the case because people were they viewed art as glorifying God God because it was like the sisting chapel.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Yeah, I mean historically, like we were talking about that it's the church has supported art and science. And it's interesting how in our country now it doesn't support either. They're just like, ew, science, that's evil. And like it's interesting because before they were like, oh, like people having these gifts of art or understanding the world that God created was so important. And then they're like, oh shit, that may be makes us question whether or not God exists. I hate that. Crush it, crush it, crush it, crush it.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah, pretty much. They got too far.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

That's too much. No. I do wonder sometimes, like, if like more liberal non-Christian people, like they do seem like they're more supportive of arts, but sometimes it feels like they're not in a way. Like, I don't know, but I suppose it's just people. Like, it's really just people. Like, there's so many people who are so negative about you, like pursuing something. Yeah, they're like, well, there's not enough room, basically. I mean, I think it's kind of like their fears that it's like it's gonna become oversaturated, but I just don't believe in oversaturation in art because like it's all so freaking different. It is oversaturated if everyone's copying everyone, but if you're creating your own art, there's no way that you can oversaturate.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah, there's only one you and only you can produce your art. It's gonna be different from everybody else's, and that's great. That's how it should be.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Yeah. I mean, I was thinking about art in the sense of like people's view of it, like we were talking about with um, I was like thinking about it, I think I said something about it, but like the art being always part of Appalachia, but like it being different now. And I was like thinking about um like there are things like folk art paintings or like face jugs or whatever. And for the most part, people think of those as kind of inexpensive sort of garbage objects. I mean, some people have a lot of respect for them, but also people I think it is viewed as like lowbrow art. You know, it's not really um and I I just wonder sometimes is like if people devalue art from Appalachia more in general than they do in place other places because there's such a like along the whole country, it's like there's a down on the south on the whole, but Appalachia has a special extra, like good morning, Appalachia. I got a mighty cute sister and an extra set of thumbs.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

That's just not how it actually is.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

No, it's like I think people forget that true, but I think people forget that it's just a place like any other place, like in people don't vary that much. They think they do more than they actually do, I think.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

That's true. Like people just undervalue Appalachians entirely.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, I mean, I think like the whole thing like we were talking about, like we talk about often off and on a lot, like just the accent thing, like how accent, like people have tried to get rid of their accents because people devalue people with like Southern Appalachian accents so much faster because just of the way they talk. And then that's something that we've talked about as well, because neither of us has a very strong accent. But I do wonder if that was something that we were taught, even subconsciously by our parents, to not do because of the undervaluing. But also, it's kind of sad to lose regional dialects and accents and stuff. Like I kind of like I do sometimes, but like I can put on a southern accent super easy, but my accent, but my accent just isn't normally very southern, just naturally when I'm talking. It's just like whatever.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

But if we're if we're back home in Georgia, it just comes right back on. You you don't even think about it, it just it just snaps right back on. They call that code switching.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask. Like, what is that called? It's called code switching, my dears. That's what that's called. I just like, no, I'm not a stranger. I'm from around here. Which I'm like, it's fine. Like, I don't think it's like a bad thing to do, but it's not like my actual accent. Though I have known people who have the southern accent. Um but I mean, there's also the question of like, is it on the whole a bad thing that like people have started to I don't know, it's like it's good and it's bad. Like people start to look at it a little bit differently. Like everyone wants to live in southern Appalachia now, but they don't because like a lot of it they don't want to live in. They want to live in like two places.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah, that's the uh that's what annoys me is that like people want to live on the landmass because of you know, ecological things, because it's temperate and it's beautiful, but they don't give a shit about the culture that's already there. Yeah, they just like, no, we'll just level all those beautiful trees and build, you know, high rises and data centers and things and not give a shit about what you know what the people that act already live there do. Because they can afford to buy them.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

They just view them all as like a big group of garbage that doesn't deserve anyone's respect. And I don't think that's fair. And like, yeah, it's not true. Some people don't deserve your respect after you have. I'm a big believer in that people deserve my respect until they've proven they don't. Yeah. Like, I I don't know if that's a southernism. I hope it's an everyone ism. Like, I just like unless like I'm gonna treat you nicely and respectfully unless you've given me reason not to. And you don't deserve it just because you're older than me or just because you whatever your situation is. But people don't give that to southerners. And like I think it's a very strange phenomenon. So many people wanting to move to the south, especially the Appalachians, and but they're just like, yeah, fuck those guys. Like, like seriously, we're not all evil. Like, I mean, I just some people are, but some of you are too. Damn. There's good uh you northerners produce Donald fucking Trump, so leave me alone.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Yeah. But there are no evil people and no good people. People are just people.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

And they are. They do evil things and good things, but they aren't in their souls necessarily. It may feel like that sometimes though. Yeah. But like I feel like the thing that irritates me the most is people not even asking. Like, they don't even try to find out. Like, there are so many people where I've just been like, you like, I may not know everything about you, but you are lovely. Like, there's so many lovely people that I have met throughout my life. We may have different views on things, and there is a point in that. Like, there is a point where it's like I can't with you because those you can be as nice as anything to me. And but it's like just this idea. I feel like you're being just as bad as anyone else if you've decided that people don't deserve respect or compassion or understanding for the varying stimulus of their life. Like, you don't know these people, and I just like there's a special kind of hatred. And I'm not saying the Appalachian people are in any way immune to hating people. I grew up with the concept of floor idiots all over the place. People, we're not perfect either. Like we but we're human beings, we don't deserve some e some special level of hatred because of the ignorance that so many people have displayed. I don't think that's fair. But like you're being ignorant too.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

That's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

But back to art and appalaceia.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Having a hard time keeping on that topic.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Yeah. I mean, I guess I have a lot to say about this because like, I mean, I understand because I went from this place of just being like kind of a little bit, I don't want to say exactly ashamed, but just kind of not really prideful at all of where I'm from. And like realizing that it's like other places, like we've been to Maine, we've been to Vermont, I've been to New York, I've been to other countries. Like I it's just not that different, guys. Not really. Like it may look different, but it's not that different. It's all like people who have their good qualities and their bad qualities. And there are places that are somewhat better and somewhat worse, and there are places that suit you more than some places and suit you less. But it's not like there's a special good or a special.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

People have, you know, desires and needs, and they're the same for you know, most people. Most societies have, you know, a certain set of rules and people have desires. Like people don't change vary that much.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

And like back to art again. Like I am an artist in Appalachia, and I've only ever sold in Appalachia, barring, you know, online sales. And people are very receptive to it. Like, people are like, I feel like there's like this idea that like Southerners and Southern Appalachian people don't care about like beauty. They don't care about anything. I'm like, I think we care about it more than you realize. Like, especially natural beauty, but there are so many amazing Appalachian artists. And there are some people, like, there's definitely people who have been like, you like this is like, especially if you're in a poorer area, they're like, oh, it's too expensive, or this isn't a way to make an income. Like you have to be doing something else. And that is a pretty pervasive idea that like you can't make money this way. And I don't know, I don't know if that's true other places because I've only ever lived in Southern Appalachia, but it I feel like there's an idea that you can't do it, but a lot of people do. Oh yeah. And I think there's a I think that there I have a hope and a feeling that there is going to be a rising like group of like we were talking about like new Appalachian artists. And they are ha it's already happening, and it could be like really beauty.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

You know? Yeah, there's there's a lot of things I'm seeing online and you know, in in person at like art markets and other events that like there's people around our age, younger, older, um, that seem to really deeply care about Appalachia and they're presenting that in their art. And it's just it's beautiful to see.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah, like um, yeah, celebrating the the beauty of Appalachia. And I just like I honestly don't have a big problem with people moving to Appalachia from other places. I just want you to show a little bit more respect and don't like don't hurt it. It's don't come here and hurt it. It's fragile and it's beautiful and it's important, and there are beautiful people here who will be happy that you're here and they they can be very welcoming. But if you aren't kind, then they're not gonna be kind. Like that's just a reasonable idea. And they're I just wish that people cared more about respecting it. And it's uh Yeah. I have a lot of feelings and a lot of sadnesses and a lot of concerns. I feel like we should end this by saying, don't move here, it's terrible. As everyone would wish us to who lives here, because it is hard. Like the living expenses are hard. It's getting harder and harder to live here. But I think it's good for people who care about it and want to support it and love it to live here. And if you don't, stay out.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yeah, if you're in if I don't understand why you would move here or stay here if you don't care about it. I don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

But people do that for anywhere. Like, why would you want to go there if you just don't care? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

If you're in Appalachia and you want to be an artist, you should absolutely do it.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah, and then we can be friends. You want to hang out?

SPEAKER_01 23:21

We should be friends. We should be friends. We're we're uh We're in the market. Yeah, we're in the market.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

We're always in the market for new friends and our friends. We love you and we'll support you.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Absolutely. And uh that's that's that's it.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Well thanks for chatting. Yeah. This is this isn't this is nice. Thanks for watching. Yeah, listening, whatever it is you're doing. Keep making art. We'll talk to you later. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

We should we should figure out some kind of outro.